Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/01/1998 09:08 AM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 203 - PHONICS CURRICULUM
MEL KROGSENG, legislative aide to Senator Taylor, sponsor of SSSB
203, informed committee members she spoke with Dr. Stayrook
regarding DOE's proposed amendments. Senator Taylor, after looking
at the last proposal from the Department of Education (DOE), still
believes that DOE's proposal does not do what he feels is
necessary. She pointed out one of the issues of contention is the
use of a nationally normed test. She noted that as Senator Green
pointed out, tests are available so Alaska does not have to
reinvent the wheel. She referred to a faxed document from Texas
which speaks to some of the problems experienced in that State.
Senator Taylor believes Alaska schools should use a nationally
normed test to determine where students' deficiencies are. She
stated she had a proposed amendment to change the word "majority"
on page 2, line 13, to "no more than 25 percent of the students."
Number 462
CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced that four people were waiting to testify
via teleconference. He asked Ms. Krogseng if she met with DOE
after the Senate HESS meeting on March 23, to discuss the
committee's concerns.
MS. KROGSENG said she did.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if DOE proposed some amendments which Senator
Taylor rejected.
MS. KROGSENG confirmed that is what occurred.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Mr. Garrison to testify.
Number 454
GREG GARRISON testified on his own behalf from Hoonah via
teleconference. Mr. Garrison said this issue is a personal one for
him, because he said when a new reading instruction approach (the
Arizona system which has been transformed into whole language)
began in the 1950's, it was done on a trial basis as the result of
politics. In retrospect, that approach is no better and is not
very much worse than the phonics approach that was used earlier.
He believes school systems should go back to teaching phonics, and
then use the whole language approach with the children who have
mastered phonics. Mr. Garrison said in first and second grade, he
had difficulty learning to read, and no one monitored his progress
or tried to correct his problems until he was in high school. He
feels robbed of his education. He added he was punished and told
he was dumb because he had difficulty learning to read, when it was
the school system that failed. Mr. Garrison stated 20 percent of
students had difficulty learning to read with the phonics approach,
but 40 to 50 percent have difficulty with the whole language
approach. He urged committee members to not reinvent the wheel but
instead to teach reading using the phonics approach. Mr. Garrison
stated that "right-brained" children do not pick up on the speed
reading approach, they need to learn phonics. He noted the main
argument by teachers in the Hoonah school system against teaching
phonics is that it is time consuming and difficult to teach. Mr.
Garrison concluded by saying we have to go back to the system that
works and use speed reading as an alternative for students who have
shown progress and can handle it.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Ms. Krogseng to describe the faxes she
mentioned.
MS. KROGSENG informed committee members the document she handed out
was faxed from Dr. Bergman of the Texas Reading Institute. It
describes Texas's experience with developing its own assessment as
the Alaska DOE proposes to do. The Texas assessment did not
provide the indicators the schools really needed. Students' scores
on that test differed greatly from the standardized normed test
scores. She explained the second document was from Education Week.
She added that Senator Taylor's office has received reams of
material in support of reintroducing phonics into the school
system.
Number 349
SENATOR TAYLOR noted Ms. Krogseng has spent a lot of time working
with DOE staff on its two concerns: how the word "phonics" can be
kept out of the bill because the education community is frightened
by the imposition of mandates; and DOE's belief that Alaska needs
to draw up its own measuring device. Senator Taylor said DOE
believes it needs to create its own yardstick so that Alaska
students do not have to be measured by a nationally normed test.
He questioned who DOE thinks Alaska students will be competing
against. He said an Alaska test would be handy if all Alaska
students remain within the confines of the State of Alaska, and
other students were not allowed in, because DOE could "dumb down"
the standard far enough to show that all Alaskan students are above
average. Senator Taylor said that is what this Administration did
by eliminating the use of nationally normed tests and now DOE "is
off in the ethers of educational theory trying to determine what
our standards will be." Senator Taylor pointed out a national
speaker visited Juneau a month ago and after reviewing DOE's
current draft standards, the speaker said DOE has no standards. He
said DOE's draft standards provide for a hiring preference for
educators with certain backgrounds and DOE wants to set up its own
test so as not to gauge Alaska students against anyone else.
Senator Taylor noted he modified the bill significantly because
people were concerned that the bill is a direct mandate. The bill
now requires that nationally normed tests be used for three
consecutive years on elementary school students. At the end of the
first three year period, if students are scoring well, schools do
not have to do anything. If a certain percentage of students score
below the national norm, schools will be mandated to teach a
phonics-based program as the major part of the reading program.
Senator Taylor emphasized that his only concern is that children
learn how to read, and he would hope that the same concern was
shared by the educational community. He said it obviously is not,
or we would not have such disastrous statistics today in our
educational system. He stated he wished the educational community
would join him in trying to stop the downward slide of reading
proficiencies.
SENATOR TAYLOR stated Commissioner Holloway knows a problem exists
and also supports a phonics-based curriculum. He stated it takes
a very courageous administrator in this state to walk into a school
system and try to convince the cadre of whole-language based
instructors that they are not doing a very good job. He stated
moving this institution just a little bit is a huge problem, and it
should not be.
Number 280
CHAIRMAN WILKEN noted discussion took place at a previous meeting
about the advisability of testing first graders, and maybe even
second graders. He asked Senator Taylor what his thoughts are on
that topic.
SENATOR TAYLOR answered if testing does not occur at those grades,
a student's problems will not be evident until the third grade. He
said his intent is that problems be addressed as soon as a student
enters school, rather than waiting three years.
Number 270
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if under Senator Taylor's proposal, first
graders would be tested at the beginning of the school year.
SENATOR TAYLOR said yes.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN commented the committee struggled through the issue
of using nationally-normed tests, and although everyone is not
happy, a concensus was reached that the problem will be finding the
right test.
SENATOR GREEN remarked that grade appropriate tests do exist and
those tests are not as intrusive as the "bubble" tests. She asked
Senator Taylor if he is committed to using a group administered
nationally-normed test.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he is not, and would have preferred to require
the use of individually administered tests, but group administered
tests are less expensive. He stated his intent is to use the test
as a screening device to provide an indication of the percentage of
students who truly need help. If a student is found to need help,
the original draft required that an individually administered test
then be given. He repeated the cost of requiring individually
administered tests was a factor he tried to avoid.
SENATOR GREEN asked whether Senator Taylor would object to
providing school districts the option of giving individually
administered tests rather than group administered tests.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he did not object.
SENATOR GREEN thought that option would be appropriate for first
graders. She moved to amend SSSB 203 to read on page 2, line 2,
"...using a nationally normed individually-administered or group-
administered test...."
SENATOR LEMAN suggested deleting the words "group-administered"
instead.
SENATOR GREEN and SENATOR TAYLOR both said they would agree to that
amendment.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced that there being no objection to deleting
the word "group-administered" on page 2, line 2, and anywhere else
it may appear in the bill, the motion carried.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN clarified the committee was discussing SSSB 203,
version X.
SENATOR WARD moved an amendment to remove the word "majority" on
page 2, line 13, and to insert the words "25 percent or more."
There being no objection to the adoption of Senator Ward's
amendment, CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced the motion carried.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to delete the word "problem" on page 2, line 10
and replace it with the word "deficiency."
SENATOR GREEN expressed concern that using the word "deficiency"
might overlap with the definition of a learning disability,
preventing the screening of children who do not actually have a
disability. She cautioned against confusing the intent of the
language in SSSB 203 with the psycho-educational battery of tests
used to diagnose learning disabled students.
SENATOR LEMAN stated his intent was to include students who might
have a deficiency that was not yet classified as a problem.
SENATOR TAYLOR commented he does not want to confuse learning
disabilities with learning problems because they are significantly
different.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Senator Green to work on that language. He
announced his intent to incorporate the amendments adopted today
into a committee substitute along with some changes requested by
DOE, and to bring the bill back before the committee.
SENATOR WARD noted he planned to make a motion to move the bill out
of committee today.
The committee took a brief at-ease.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN took teleconference testimony on SSSB 203.
MR. A.M. JOHNSON made the following comments via teleconference
from Ketchikan. He informed committee members a school in Texas,
with a 85 to 87 percent minority student body, is now ranked among
the top 12 or 13 elementary schools after it was in the bottom
quartile of its district three years ago. In the area of reading,
the school's success is contributed to the introduction and use of
phonics. Systematic intensive phonics calls for repetition and
practice. The special education costs in the Texas school district
have decreased, and legislative review of abuse of special
education funds in Alaska has been acknowledged. He stated Alaska
is spending as much as $17,000 per student in some districts, and
between 50 and 100 percent of the students in those districts are
performing at the lowest quartile in reading. Opposition to
phonics instruction is coming from the very institution that has
allowed the status quo for years; three more years of it is
unacceptable. He stated 21 percent of Ketchikan's students are
scoring in the lowest quartile on the Gates-McGinnis test. If one
adds the students scoring in the fourth stanine, a total of 41
percent of Ketchikan's first graders are performing at an
unacceptable level. Local research is showing that continuance of
this deficiency throughout students' schooling contributes to a
high percentage of high school drop outs. Those students become
discouraged, dropout, and become a problem to society. He stated
the Ketchikan school district claims to use phonics, but he calls
it "single digit" phonics, not extensive, specific phonics. Mr.
Johnson said SSSB 203 is an attempt to address a deficiency and is
in line with a national awakening for the need to face this concern
with a "fresh old" solution.
MR. JOHNSON stated he cannot locate a specific teaching college
that teaches the instruction of intensive phonics. Phonics is a
result-based process. The code learned through phonics unlocks the
ability to understand and learn reading skills. He encouraged
committee members to pass SSSB 203.
Number 098
HANNAH RAMISKEY, president of the Ketchikan School Board, testified
on her own behalf. She stated she believes Senator Taylor's bill
is focussed on accountability which seems to be a major public
concern. The current concept in education seems to be developmental
learning: everyone learns at a different rate and everyone learns
in a different style. That approach translates to the fact that no
one is responsible. If a child does not learn to read in first or
second grade, it is not the fault of the school board, principal or
teacher because everyone learns differently. The problem is that
the child may still not be able to read at the seventh grade level.
If we accept the concept that through second grade children learn
to read, and from third grade on they read to learn, every child
who cannot read from third grade on begins to lose context,
therefore that child will fall further and further behind.
MS. RAMISKEY noted she discussed with the Ketchikan School
District's superintendent the question of what has been taught to
our teachers over the past 20 to 30 years, to determine whether
students are not being taught intensive phonics because it is
inappropriate for the particular students, or because the teachers
are not well versed in the subject. She believes that question
needs to be answered if teachers want legislators to stay out of
the classroom. She questioned who will be accountable to ensure
that every child who is mentally capable learns to read before the
third grade so that the lack of those skills does not become
detrimental to the child's education through the 12th grade.
Number 058
DR. NICK STAYROOK, representing the Department of Education, noted
he sent committee members copies of DOE's proposed amendments to
SSSB 203. He made the following comments on the three amendments
made earlier during the meeting. He thought the deletion of the
words "group-administered" was favorable, but he noted that change
will alter DOE's fiscal note. Similarly, Senator Ward's motion to
change the word "majority" to "25 percent or more" will affect
DOE's fiscal note. He referred to a recent joint meeting of the
House and Senate HESS committees to review Education Weeks' Quality
Counts report. In that report, the State of Alaska received many
D and F grades in its education reform movement. One of the major
reasons Alaska scored so poorly is that it has no standards or
assessments for its students. DOE's concern in moving toward
standards and assessment is to improve our educational system
through that process. DOE's proposed amendments reflect that
concern.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN commented two representatives of DOE were present
and noted the need for a revised fiscal note.
Number 022
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Dr. Stayrook why the two amendments he
referred to will impact the fiscal note.
DR. STAYROOK replied the costing DOE did to determine the cost of
giving group-administered tests was limited to those types of tests
only. If individually-administered tests are given, or a different
type of screening device is used, DOE will have to look at what the
publishers' costs are for those tests.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Dr. Stayrook if he was implying those tests
would be more expensive.
DR. STAYROOK said he could not say without looking at what is
available from test publishers.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked why the amendment pertaining to more than 25
percent of the students would impact the fiscal note.
DR. STAYROOK answered the original bill required that if a majority
of the students at a specific grade level score below the 25th
percentile, the governing body would have to create a systematic
phonics program. The amendment requires the same approach if 25
percent or more of the students score below the 25th percentile.
That percentage change will significantly change the number of
districts that will be affected by Section 2.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what costs are associated with incorporating
a phonics program into a school district's curriculum.
DR. STAYROOK said a number of costs are involved in reviewing what
phonics programs are available. Staff development costs will occur
as well. The original fiscal note contained funds for staff
development and other technical assistance to districts. The
amendment will increase the number of districts needing this kind
of assistance.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN announced his intent is to bring the committee
substitute before the committee as soon as possible, most likely
Wednesday. He asked DOE staff to revise the fiscal note.
SENATOR TAYLOR commented that Dr. Stayrook stated DOE was moving
toward educational standards. He reminded committee members DOE
had not moved at all toward educational standards until this
Legislature passed laws mandating it to do so. DOE has now spent
over one year working on the very standards the Legislature gave it
the discretion to set. If DOE is unable to come up with standards
that are measurable, meaningful, quantifiable, and have had some
decent peer review, Alaska will find itself in the same boat.
[END OF TAPE]
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